Wednesday, March 4, 2020

Some great questions from someone wishing to prevent a friend from “rejecting Jesus”….


Your ministry was referred to me by a friend. A good friend of mine, Torah observant, has been listening to a teacher from Beit Tefillah productions on you tube. I don t know the teacher’s name, but the teaching she sent me is called “no messiah can die for your sins.”

Based on his teaching, my friend is deciding to deny Messiah and the entire apostolic scripture. He makes a very good case, but I think I could make a rebuttal for most of his points. But I may need help. His premise is that one person dying for another’s sin is not in Tenahk, and human sacrifice is an abomination.

Are you familiar with this teaching and do you have ideas to answer it? Any rebuttal must come only from Tenahk, which I believe can be done. I can answer the issues on human sacrifice , and the idea of one person atoning for another. He claims and proves blood is not required for forgiveness, etc. He does not take into account the covenant blood. Thanks in advance for any help


Hello and thank you for writing to The Refiner's Fire!

It is admirable that you wish to keep your friend from making the biggest mistake of his life, but I can tell you from experience that, once someone has decided to "reject Jesus", there's nothing you can say or do to change their mind. They drank the proverbial Kool-Aid and became "star-struck" by the Jewish rabbis who have crawled out of the woodwork to "rub elbows" with the Gentiles to supposedly lead them to "G-d's Truth" (which, of course, means teaching them to toss out the entire New Testament).

These unsuspecting former Christians, Messianics or Hebrew Roots types don't recognize the hidden agenda of those rabbis and their converts, which is to get people to REJECT Messiah Y'shua and then begin to teach the rest of the world to do the same. (Ironically, once they've rejected him "Jesus" seems to be all the "Jesus rejecters" ever talk about!)

It's brilliant, really, the "reverse psychology" the rabbis and their converts employ: make your enemy into a friend and then use him to help you carry out your mission.

Doesn’t it sound familiar? If not, it should, because that's exactly how the serpent in Genesis 3:1-7 operated! That "serpent" and those two gullible humans who used poor judgment and strayed from YHWH's commands (like the entire world is doing today!) are THE reason we are IN a fallen world that is now in the process of collapsing!

Anyway, questions such as yours cannot be answered in one, neat and simple paragraph, so I will be referring you to some of our website's articles, where we have answered tons of "counter-missionary" questions.

So - getting to the point - I'm sure you know, anyone who teaches against YHWH's Divine Messiah is dead wrong. And they ALWAYS try to use the same ol' hackneyed excuses that, if it wasn't prophesied in Torah or Tanakh, then it is a myth. Realistically, if that's the case, then none of our forebears exist, either, because NONE of them were mentioned in Torah/Tanakh! George Washington was just another guy off the street, because Tanakh didn't prophesy him to become the first President of the United States. Same with Benjamin Netanyahu or any other world leader. Furthermore, the computers or cellphones we use today are also myths, as neither of those things were prophesied (along with multitudes of other modern inventions that make our life easier).

The thing is, Tanakh DOES reveal Messiah and his sufferings! I mean, who do you think Isaiah 53 is all about? Oh sure, those illustrious "counter-missionaries" (just like Christians, on the other side of the spectrum) apply plenty of Scripture twisting to force YHWH's Word to say what they WANT it to say; but ask yourself the following:

  • If Isaiah 53 is supposedly about Israel (as "they" insist) we must question whether Israel can DIE for Israel? (No, but Y’shua did! See Matthew 27.)
  • Can Israel be wounded for our transgressions? (No, but Y’shua was! See Matthew 27.)
  • Can people take Israel's garments and divide them? (No, but that certainly happened in Y’shua’s case! See John 19:23.)
  • WHEN was "Israel" wounded for our transgressions or crushed because of our iniquities?
  • Has the world been HEALED by "Israel"? Not hardly!

Y'shua has filled myriad Tanach prophecies - and people can reject it all they want, but they cannot CHANGE those facts! (And, by the way, NOTHING SAID that Y'shua would have to fulfill ALL the Tanach prophecies within his lifetime - which is another thing "they" attempt to use against him. (Please read our articles: Isaiah 53 and Yeshua   and Accurate Messiah Prophecies.)

All these so-called "learned rabbis" (and their blinded hangers-on) can't seem to see the supernatural events surrounding Mashiyach Y'shua. They have no problem believing that "G-d" (a Being they've never seen) created the universe and everything in it - but to cause His Divine Messiah to be supernaturally implanted into an almah (virgin)? - well, that's apparently too ridiculous and far-fetched!

YOU WROTE: "His premise is that one person dying for another's sin is not in Tenahk, and 'human sacrifice' is an abomination." He claims and proves blood is not required for forgiveness, etc. Are you familiar with this teaching and do you have ideas to answer it? Any rebuttal must come only from Tenahk, which I believe can be done."

OUR RESPONSE: Please read our blog article, "Mere men cannot atone? WRONG!"  Also see Judges 11 where Yiftach did sacrifice his daughter to fulfill the vow he made to YHWH. And let's not forget that Avraham was perfectly willing to sacrifice Yitzhak until YHWH provided a ram...

Today, many (if not most) Jews insist that prayer and repentance are all God requires of us to be forgiven. That is absolutely FALSE!  Please see our article on eternal life.

See also our article about the Passover connection to Y'shua - which shows that Y’shua wasn’t a “human sacrifice” because nobody sacrificed him. (Much like the Passover lambs that were NOT “sacrificed” either….)

Y'shua volunteered to substitute His nephesh for yours, and yet, today, many reject the offer. Y'shua, sinless because of who he was, MARTYRED himself, offering His blood for yours, against which there is NO Torah prohibition!

As mentioned above, I doubt your friend will listen to you, much less, bother to read our articles containing biblical proof, but we wish you well in this endeavor and pray YHWH's favor upon you both.

By the way, the website you were referring to belongs to Scott Shoob (who has various spellings of his last name, including Schubbe). Scott used to be a Messianic believer up until two or three years ago, when he suddenly "became enlightened".... His teachings are absolute POISON. And, of course, like the counter-missionary rabbis, Scott is also in it for the money. Controversy, after all, sells.   (And, as I mentioned before, just like all the others who reject YHWH's Messiah, how ironic that he just CAN'T seem to quit talking about him…)


  1. Where is the Commandment from The Creator that anyone needs Jesus for anything? Please cite it.

  2. You clearly didn't read what I wrote, nor my suggested articles, or you would never have asked that question.

    1. Because what you wrote and the articles you suggested are GARBAGE

    2. Then why do you come here to read them? Obviously not everyone is able to recognize biblical TRUTH when they see it... (Don't bother writing again, as your future attempts will be deleted.)


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