READER COMMENT:
Looking through The Refiner's Fire looking for a blog on Deuteronomy 13. Many anti-messianics (those who have rejected Y'shua and turned to traditional Judaism which insists He is a myth) use the "Deuteronomy 13 test" to demonstrate (supposedly) that Yeshua "failed" it. When asked, "What part of this test did He fail?" they will dance around like crazy, might just change the subject, or they twist something He said, and declare it never came to pass.
As with most "discussions" with them, there is no discussion in fact whatsoever and these accusations are thrown out mindlessly, carelessly and viciously, just like the muslim terrorists who throw a rock at any passing car, without giving a thought to the damage that could occur.
I watched a teaching on Deuteronomy 13 by 119 a few years ago, but can't remember what it said exactly, and I was wondering if you have a blog on this. Before reading it though, I think it is time for me to REread the scripture myself, and outline for myself what is taught. Spoon feeding can be an easy way to get a little spiritual nutrition, but like the teaching I watched a few years ago, it didn't (as my dear Gram used to say) "stick to my ribs!"
OUR RESPONSE:
GREAT question! We don’t have an article about Deuteronomy 13 per se, but myriad articles showing how and why Y’shua IS the long-awaited Jewish Messiah and that He didn't "fail ANY so-called tests":
Qualifications of the Messiah
Yeshua in a nutshell
Yeshua has so far fulfilled the first four Feasts
Accurate Messiah Prophecies
And check out just one of several dialogues we have had with Jews!
The teaching to which you're referring at 119 Ministries can be found at http://119ministries.com/deut13
Here’s a million dollar question - something traditional Jews seem to be overlooking: YHWH said that the Jews would be a "light to the nations" (Isaiah 42:5-8). How would we have been that "light" without Yeshua, without all the controversy surrounding Him, and all the subsequent "religions" that originated because of Him? Without Him, Judaism would have been kept a huge, insignificant secret, confined to tiny Israel! Because of Yeshua - God's promised New Covenant (Jeremiah 31:31-34) - the entire world eventually heard about the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob!
The big problem is, Jewish rabbis micromanage the prophecies to make sure their people WON’T find Y’shua in them!
So, as promised, I did REread Deuteronomy 13! Here is what I found.
ReplyDeleteBasically, there is ONLY ONE TEST "QUESTION:"
Does the dreamer or prophet say or entice you to "...go after other gods,’ which you have not known, ‘and let us serve them...’ ?"
That's the Only "test." It's repeated 4 times, with detailed instructions of what to do with such a person, their cattle, and their idolatrous doo dads. Obviously, Yeshua never once suggested idolatry in any form: No anti-messianic/anti-missionary can say or prove that Yeshua did. End of test. No application to my Messiah! WooHoo!
AMEIN! Thanks for re-reading that passage and discovering that the answer is there in plain sight right within the passage! Your response is a great one to post on Facebook's "The Rabbis Said WHAT?!?" page!
Deleteobviously, Y'shua NEVER ONCE suggested idolatry or enticed us You are so correct to say that Y'shua never enticed anyone to "go after other gods" in any shape, form or fashion! He was ALWAYS all about YHWH! Even in places such as where He said, "Follow me" (Matthew 4:19; 16:24), he didn't say, "Follow me because I am your God"; he wanted people to follow him BECAUSE he was leading them to YHWH and His Torah!
DeleteThe first part of the Deuteronomy 13 test is actually Deuteronomy 12:32, since that verse is actually the first verse of Deuteronomy 13 in the Hebrew text. Y'shua passed it, but most Christians would have you think otherwise.
ReplyDeletePlease remove the reference to a particular website/group of people I am going to mention if it is not appropriate or according to your standards to publish a discussion about a particular group of believers.
ReplyDeleteBut I would like to know what you personally think of the 119 Ministries and their teachings? I have read their articles and watched many of their video teachings and think I have learned a lot from them. But they do have radically different views to yours on certain subjects. I know I am not to follow a man but YHWH alone, but I do need sound teaching in the matters of the Scriptures. I often feel a bit lost in this jungle of differing opinions by different Torah observant groups. Even we who uphold and keep the Torah and have the testimony of His Mashiyach Yeshua, sadly do not have unity in the Body of Mashiyach..
When I don't know what to do or believe, I sit down and pray that YHWH would lead me into all Truth in Him and would keep me from believing a lie or erroneous teaching.
Shalom and thank you for taking the time to post on our blog. Unfortunately, we cannot edit people’s comments – but that’s okay, because you have asked a great question. What do you we personally think of 119 Ministries and their teachings? Well, in all honesty, we like most of their teachings! 119 Ministries is actually one of the few ministries we have any respect for - and that is because we can sense they are genuinely nice people who simply wish to proclaim YHWH’s Truth, to the best of their ability - just like we do, here at The Refiner’s Fire.
DeleteThe thing is, nobody can honestly say they and only they have cornered the market on Truth. Much of Scripture is simply hard to understand, and sages and rabbis and pastors throughout the millennia have been knocking themselves out to figure out the more difficult messages to mankind. (I’ve often wondered if this was YHWH’s plan – to purposely make some things confusing so that His people would be forced to constantly discuss and midrash and argue … for the express purpose of keeping Him in the foreground of our mind.)
Regardless as to our personal beliefs, “iron sharpens iron” (Proverbs 27:17), and often an opposing opinion causes adjustments to thinking. (We try to ignore those who insist on rigidly adhering to their own knowledge/opinions and who want to fight and argue instead of remembering or realizing that it’s all about YHWH and not us.)
As you mentioned, the Messianic/HR faith is terribly splintered because of this. Everybody wants to fight and argue and shove their respective ideas down the world’s collective throat. But the bottom line is, “being right” in the grand scheme of things doesn’t mean a thing, because - as we read in Revelation 3:16 - many “right” people will end up vomited from Y’shua’s mouth upon His return. He is looking for hearts and souls bent toward Him, not people who intend to tell Him HE is “wrong” about some things!
Those who wish to be “refined in the fire” (http://therefinersfire.org/refiners_fire.htm) must be willing to constantly learn and grow and update their knowledge. So, differing opinions can often be a GOOD thing. Therefore, we don’t mind if some other ministry’s teachings don’t perfectly align with ours. What we mind are the ministries run by people who will “do and say” whatever it takes to make a buck, while their leaders are constantly undergoing personal turmoil and living their lives completely opposite to Torah....
You actually answered your own question with this comment: “When I don't know what to do or believe, I sit down and pray that YHWH would lead me into all Truth in Him and would keep me from believing a lie or erroneous teaching.” That’s the only sensible thing we CAN do! Thanks again for your excellent comments – and for taking the time to write to The Refiner’s Fire!
Shalom, Shali