In reference to the post, below, on Oct 28th titled "The 'viper pits' of supposed Believers who view themselves as holy...." - I could not agree more! There is a high level of toxic information posted on these sites. It's a jaw-dropping mystery to me that so many are so bent on DENYING any RESPONSIBILITY to OBEY YHWH! It truly blows the mind how deep the denial runs in most circles that "grace" somehow replaced simple obedience!
How can so many take the WORD OF GOD and conclude it "does not apply" to them?
They completely dismiss at least 3/4 of the Word by ignoring the "Old Testament" (and large parts of the New Testament!), yet without comprehending the Old Testament, they don't realize there is no "New Testament"! They are thus completely blind to who the Messiah is and what He taught because they have, without knowing, totally dismissed what He taught! So since they can't know what the Messiah taught, they instead create an entire "religion" on what they "think" Apostle Paul taught! And then, to add insult to injury, they only internalize PART of what Paul said (incorrectly at that!) They completely ignore Paul's own clarification and expansion in other scriptures which would, if they only understood the OT and all they have dismissed, show them how wrong they are!
So I find myself often shaking my head in complete bewilderment how something so simple as Torah and its role in our lives is so summarily dismissed as "that Old Testament stuff"! Some, who have had such bad teachings drilled into them for so long that "Torah is the Law - it's 'works' and 'works' don't get you to heaven" - have so misunderstood Torah as to conclude that "works" are therefore "bad" and are not needed! But the very scriptures they cling to - the New Testament - says otherwise! I'll cite a few scriptures in a moment.
For sure, "works" do not "earn" you salvation. Let me make this perfectly clear. But obedience to God is required for your salvation, and God Himself defined what "obedience" is! It's the part so many have dismissed! TORAH! You see, Torah is not "Law" or "works", rather Torah is simply a way of life! It is how God Himself told us to live to be holy in his eyes! (Leviticus 19:2) Unless one can get past the misguided dogma that Torah is somehow "bad" and come to understand that it is exactly the opposite; and come to realize that the only part of "grace" that means anything is that through grace, YHWH permits us to be imperfect yet still have a chance to enter His presence; and come to understand that obedience is still part of the equation - well, their salvation is actually in jeopardy!
Let me explain...
First, what is "salvation"? It is eternal life (in the Kingdom) after death. So the question on everyone's mind should be: "How do I obtain eternal life?"
The Messiah told us how to obtain eternal life! Not Paul. The Messiah! Read it yourself in John 17:2-3. I'll wait....
Okay, so you found that eternal life is gained by knowing God, and knowing the Messiah. (Note the Messiah said nothing about "grace"!)
So your next question should be: "How do I 'know' God and the Messiah?"
Well, the Old Testament (that part most dismiss) contains the answer. But since you think that is just that "old Law stuff", please turn to the scripture you might agree still holds. Turn to 1 John 2:3-7 in the New Testament. Here, I'll give it to you:
"And by this we shall be sensible that we know him, if we keep his Commandments. For he that says I know him, and does not keep his Commandments, is a liar and the truth is not in him. But he that keeps his Word, in him is the Love of Elohim truly completed: for by this we know that we are in him. He that says I am in him is bound to walk according to his halacha. My beloved, I write no new commandment to you, but the old Commandment which you had from the beginning; and the old Commandment is the Word which you have heard."
Folks, if you dismissed the "Old Testament", Torah, you dismissed His Commandments. This is plain and simple. John is not saying "grace" replaced obedience. Paul never said grace replaced obedience. And the Messiah, if you would be good enough to go read exactly what He said, also never said "grace" would replace obedience!
So if this is true, your next question might be: "What then was the sacrifice of the Messiah for?"
I'm glad you asked!
His sacrifice for you was the "grace" part! He died as a substitute for your sins, even though you did not deserve it, all sins prior to that point where you accepted Him as your substitute! You see, if He had not died for you, you had no way to atone for your sins! But once you accept this, that He died for you as he died for everyone, then it is up to you to not sin again! "Grace" does not permit you to sin again and again and be forgiven as you've been taught! This is in your New Testament! And Paul said it:
"But they who have once descended to immersion and have tasted the gift from heaven and have received the Ruach haKodesh and have tasted the good Word of Elohim and the power of the world to come, cannot again sin and a second time be renewed to repentance; or a second time execute him on a stake and insult the Son of Elohim." (Hebrews 6:4-6)
So quit denying Torah and go learn how good Torah is for you! Learn to walk as the Messiah walked and obey YHWH as He did! You will do "works", yes, but not for you salvation, but to please YHWH! For when you know Torah and obey, you will come to know YHWH and the Messiah and realize that you do it for Him, not for yourself! The Messiah even said this:
"Now if you desire to enter into life, keep the Commandments." (Matthew 19:17)
(You find the Commandments in Torah!)
Addendum: I received a PM from someone who said: "But what about Ephesians 2:8? Doesn't that say we are now under grace?"
My Reply: Well, that verse, by itself certainly sounds that way! But did you read ALL of the Letter to the Ephesians? In Chapter 1, verse 4 he says: "According as He had previously chosen us in him, before the foundation of the world, that we might be Set Apart and without blame before Him..." Now remember, in Paul's time there was no "New Testament" yet, so the definition of "Set Apart" was the Old Testament definition: Holy and righteous by YHWH's ways, living by Torah. (Leviticus 20:26 for example.) Paul says this again in verse 18: "And that the eyes of your hearts may be enlightened so that you may know what is the hope of his calling, and what are the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the Set Apart believers." Those who are "Set Apart" are those who desire to obey YHWH. Paul actually explains in the next few verses, right after the verse you cited (2:8)! He explains that your salvation is: "Not of works, or else anyone glory (in themselves). For we are His creation who are created in Y’shua the Mashiyach for good works which Elohim has before prepared for us to walk in." (2:9-10) So you don't do "works" for salvation, but as Set Apart, you do "works" because that is the way of life you are to live! In other words you do it for YHWH, not for yourself. So Set Apart believers are NOT simply given a "free pass" to sin at-will because they have "grace", once they believe! They are to obey! And, I reiterate, obedience is defined by Torah, not by your own desires.
Amein! I cannot find star "excellent" post lol you said it all Liam!ReplyDelete
Romans 10 CJB
10 Brothers, my heart’s deepest desire and my prayer to God for Isra’el is for their salvation; 2 for I can testify to their zeal for God. But it is not based on correct understanding; 3 for, since they are unaware of God’s way of making people righteous and instead seek to set up their own, they have not submitted themselves to God’s way of making people righteous.
4 For the goal at which the Torah aims is the Messiah, who offers righteousness to everyone who trusts.
5 For Moshe writes about the righteousness grounded in the Torah that the person who does these things will attain life through them.[a] 6 Moreover, the righteousness grounded in trusting says:
“Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend to heaven?’” —
that is, to bring the Messiah down — 7 or,
“‘Who will descend into Sh’ol?’” —
that is, to bring the Messiah up from the dead. 8 What, then, does it say?
“The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart.”[b] —
that is, the word about trust which we proclaim, namely, 9 that if you acknowledge publicly with your mouth that Yeshua is Lord and trust in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be delivered. 10 For with the heart one goes on trusting and thus continues toward righteousness, while with the mouth one keeps on making public acknowledgement and thus continues toward deliverance. 11 For the passage quoted says that everyone who rests his trust on him will not be humiliated.[c] 12 That means that there is no difference between Jew and Gentile — Adonai is the same for everyone, rich toward everyone who calls on him, 13 since everyone who calls on the name of Adonai will be delivered.[d]
14 But how can they call on someone if they haven’t trusted in him? And how can they trust in someone if they haven’t heard about him? And how can they hear about someone if no one is proclaiming him? 15 And how can people proclaim him unless God sends them? — as the Tanakh puts it, “How beautiful are the feet of those announcing good news about good things!”[e]
16 The problem is that they haven’t all paid attention to the Good News and obeyed it. For Yesha‘yahu says,
“Adonai, who has trusted what he has heard from us?”[f]
17 So trust comes from what is heard, and what is heard comes through a word proclaimed about the Messiah.
18 “But, I say, isn’t it rather that they didn’t hear?” No, they did hear —
“Their voice has gone out throughout the whole world
and their words to the ends of the earth.”[g]
19 “But, I say, isn’t it rather that Isra’el didn’t understand?”
“I will provoke you to jealousy over a non-nation,
over a nation void of understanding I will make you angry.”[h]
20 Moreover, Yesha‘yahu boldly says,
“I was found by those who were not looking for me,
I became known to those who did not ask for me”;[i]
21 but to Isra’el he says,
“All day long I held out my hands
to a people who kept disobeying and contradicting.”[j]
Romans 10:5 Leviticus 18:5
Romans 10:8 Deuteronomy 30:11–14
Romans 10:11 Isaiah 28:16
Romans 10:13 Joel 3:5(2:32)
Romans 10:15 Isaiah 52:7
Romans 10:16 Isaiah 53:1
Romans 10:18 Psalm 19:5(4)
Romans 10:19 Deuteronomy 32:21
Romans 10:20 Isaiah 65:1
Romans 10:21 Isaiah 65:2
That's exactly it, Tamra! You said it all! :)ReplyDelete
Loud and Clear. High Ten Abba, Shali! ��������Delete
What doesn't fit to my understanding is how on earth the Christians can say that Yeshua came to rebuke us (or the Jews) for keeping His commandments.ReplyDelete
I also often like to use this example that I made up myself:
Elohim commands people to cross the street on green light ONLY. The same law for every soul, and this law is to keep them safe and at the same time close to the Creator through obedience to Him. And if keeping this, Elohim promises them Eternal Life.
But then suddenly, he sends Yeshua to tell the people how stupid they are for following the rule of crossing the street on green light only. Yeshua preaches 'grace' and 'freedom' from the rule of crossing the street on green light only and says anybody who dares to follow it, has fallen off His grace. He says, do as you please with the traffic lights, all you have to do is to 'believe' in Him and love him and your neighbour as yourself.
So people start making their own rules; some cross the street on yellow light, some on red. And as a result, many die and get injured. They keep preaching to others, especially those who wishes to follow the rule of crossing the street on green light only, how stupid they are and fallen off grace, that you cannot earn your way to salvation and close to YHWH by obeying this 'old testament' rule. They say it is too difficult to keep, nobody can keep the rule, and that Yeshua came to save us from this 'burden' of keeping it.
Very well said, Anonymous! Great example!Delete