Thursday, July 16, 2015

Debunking another lie of the "anti-missionaries" who hate Jesus....

The latest “JasonSpiritualBabies” attempt to “debunk Jesus” suggests that John 17:12 is a farce because there’s no mention of “Son of Perdition” in the Tanach.  (Of course, that’s because the way traditional Jews and their converts read "their" Tanach ensures that NOTHING will ever line up with YHWH’s “rest of the story.”  They’ll argue your leg off about the meanings of the passages, never, ever even seeming to realize that some of what they espouse is just downright ludicrous! 

Yet, these “anti-missionaries” (those who reject Y'shua as Messiah and work to sell the idea that the New Testament is a myth) are are truly knocking themselves out to make you believe that everything you've ever known about Scripture is a lie.  They refuse to even acknowledge that Isaiah 53 is all about Messiah!  One of them recently wrote that “G-d’s people didn’t build the Golden Calf; but rather, it was the “non-Jews” who followed Moses out of Egypt. Why do they say that?  Because in Exodus 32:7-8 God said to Moshe “Go, descend to YOUR people that YOU (Moses) have brought up from Egypt....”   In other words, God didn’t at that point, refer to them as MY people.
Sounds convincing, doesn’t it?  Well, if you will read the REST of that passage you’ll discover something very interesting: Moshe’s brother, Aaron, the priest – who, like Moshe, was a LEVITE – was instrumental in the building of that golden calf!  As a matter of fact, he ORCHESTRATED it and then tried to downplay it when confronted by Moshe!  Please read all of Exodus 32 when you get a chance to see exactly what happened, so you can recognize this BLATANT Scripture twisting these people are trying to push down your throat!  For more on this, I invite you to watch my short video (Video Number 27 of my 5-video series designed to fight back against those who attempt to make their living “debunking Jesus!”).

Anyway, getting back to Jason, he asks:  “Did Judas get a mention in the Hebrew bible? Jesus says he did. John 17:12.”

Hmm...I don’t see any mention of Judas in this entire chapter, do you?  I think this is just another of Jason’s desperate attempts to “debunk Jesus” in whatever way he can dream up, using his particular Bible version!  I mean, Y’shua was constantly all about His Father, so why is Jason picking on just one passage that he's attempting to take out of context (thanks to the many Bible versions and their skewed commentaries!) in hopes of derailing him?

Let's take a look at that whole chapter.  It's not very long:

John 17: 1.  Y’shua spoke these things and he lifted up his eyes to Heaven and said My Father the hour has come.  Glorify your Son so that your Son might glorify you.  2. Just as you have given him authority over all flesh that whomever You have given him, he will give to him life that is eternal.  3. Now this is life that is eternal, that they might know You, that You are the Elohim of Truth, and he alone whom You have sent, the Mashiyach Y’shua.  4. I have glorified You on earth.  The work that You have given to me to do I have finished it.  5. And now glorify me my Father with You in that glory that I had with You from before the world was.  6. I have made Your Name known to the sons of those men whom You had given to me from the world. They were Yours and You have given them to me, and they have kept Your Word. 

7. Now they have known that everything that you have given to me I have given to them and they received them.  8. And they know that I have truly proceeded from your presence, and they believe that You have sent me.  9. And I plead for them. It is not for the world I plead; rather, for those whom you have given to me because they are Yours.  10. And everything that is mine is Yours, and Yours is mine and I am glorified by them.  11. Henceforth, I will not be in the world, and these are in the world.  And I am coming to Your presence.  Kadosh[1] Father, keep them by your Name,[2] that which you have given to me, that they may be one as We are.  12. I was with them while I was in the world.  I have kept them in your Name;[3] those whom you have given to me, I have kept.  And not a man of them is lost except for the son of perdition, that the Scriptures might be fulfilled.  13. And now I come to Your presence, and these things I speak in the world that my joy may be full in them. 

14. I have given to them Your Word and the world hates them because they are not of the world as I am not of the world.  15. It is not that I plead You take them from the world, but that You might keep evil from them.  16. For they are not from the world, as I am not from the world.  17. Father sanctify them by your Truth, for Your Word is Truth. 18. As you have sent me into the world, I also have sent them into the world.  19. And I fear for their sakes.  I sanctify myself so that they may also be sanctified by Truth.  20. And it is not only for the sake of these I plead, but also for the sake of those who will believe in me by their word.  21. That all of them may be One; as You my Father are in me and I in You, that they also may be One in Us, that the world may believe that You have sent me.

 22. And the glory that You have given to me I have given to them that they may be One as we are One.  23. I in them and You in me, that they may be perfected into One and that the world may know that You have sent me, and that You have loved them as also You have loved me.  24. Father, those whom You have given to me, I desire that where I am they might also be with me that they might see my glory that You have given to me because You have loved me from before the foundations of the world.  25. My Just Father, the world has not known You, but I have known You.  And these that You know You have sent me.  26. And I have made Your Name known to them.  And I will confess it so that the love with which You have loved me might be in them, and I might be in them.


1.  Kadosh/Set Apart means that YHWH and His Word will never change; we can put our trust in Him knowing He will keep His Word.

2.  A very key passage. Aramaic literally reads that YHWH gave His Name to Y’shua; therefore, he has the Name of his Father within him.

3.  Y’shua keeps them in YHWH’s name so when we call upon YHWH in Y’shua’s name, we are calling on YHWH for Salvation.  As the Name of YHWH is in Mashiyach, so are we to have the name of Mashiyach in us, which means that as followers of Y’shua we are to walk according to his righteousness, observe Torah and walk in the anointing of the Ruach haKodesh as Mashiyach demonstrated to us.

Anyway, did you see ANY mention of Judas?

The title “son of perdition” is used twice in the New Testament:  John 17:12, above, and  2 Thessalonians 2:3, which says:  3. Let no one deceive you in any way because (that day will not come) unless there previously come a defection[1] and that man of sin be revealed; the son of perdition;  4. who is an opponent and who exalts himself above all that is called Elohim and praiseworthy; so that he also sits in the temple of Elohim as a deity and displays himself as if he were a deity.  (AENT)

Footnote:  The “falling away” or “the Great Apostasy” refers to the fallen state of Christianity as a whole; the original First Century Christian Faith (Christian being a Greek term which referred to Greek followers of Y’shua) was one Faith with the Netzarim Jewish followers of Y’shua.  Gentiles were originally being grafted into the Kingdom of Elohim as the “Israel of Elohim” according to the Renewed Covenant.  However, even in Paul’s day, an all-Gentile church was being birthed, which aimed to throw off Torah and reinvent Mashiyach to put him more in line with Hellenism, polytheism and paganism.

Moving on, the phrase “son of perdition” simply means “man doomed to destruction”, “eternal damnation” or “utter destruction.”  In John 17 it was never aimed at or reserved for any one individual!  Some Bible commentaries might suggest that, but that is merely the respective author's OPINION!

The word perdition can also be used as a synonym for hell. When a person is called “son of perdition,” the connotation is that of a person in an unredeemable state, someone who is already damned while he is still alive.  We see examples of the “damned” throughout the Tanach!

In John 17 while praying to the Father for His disciples, Y’shua mentions that He “protected them and kept them safe” and that none of them were lost except the “son of perdition”; that is, the one who was already in a damned state.  And only YHWH knows who those people are!

So, which scripture  does Yeshua refer to when He says in John 17:12 "....that the Scriptures might be fulfilled?"  Well, if you turn to John 13:18, it says "It is not concerning all of you; I speak for those I know whom I have chosen, but that the Scripture might be fulfilled.  He who eats bread with me has lifted his heel against me!"  That phrase "He who eats bread with me has lifted his heel against me", is well understood to have come from Psalm 41:9, and this is the same situation being addressed in John 17:12.  So the fact that Yeshua is referring to Judas, whom He knows will betray Him, He is not referring to "Judas" being mentioned in the Tanakh; rather, Yeshua is comparing what is to happen to Him with what happened to David.


  1. The anti-Y'shua has been here since the time of the apostles and they'll be here when He comes the second time. It sad to hear that there are people out there that continously "debunking Jesus" as the Messiah, i guess we have no choice but to pray for these people that one day their eyes will be opened and see the truth.


All comments are moderated.