Examples of their perspicuity:
- Denying the simple commandment to wear tzitzit: 3505 words.
- Denying Passover and replacing it with Easter: 3740 words (and planning a "Part 2" and "Part 3"! Whoah!)
- Denying the Feast of Trumpets: 2668 words.
- Denying Yom Kippur: 974 words.
- Denying the Feast of Tabernacles (Sukkot): 1272 words.
- Denying Hebrew as the Holy Language of God: 2274 words.
- Denying the Hebrew word "Shekinah" as a term for "the dwelling place of God": 1354 words.
That last article listed above (denying the word "shekinah") - 1300+ words - is especially appalling because part of their worthless argument is that the word "Shekinah" is found nowhere in the Bible! Really? Since a descriptive word is not found in the Bible, this is important enough to deny it as an endearing term for the "Presence or dwelling place of God"? Well, I hate to break it to you, but "Christmas and "Easter" are also not found anywhere in the Bible! But I don't see any articles on this same site denying those phoney holidays! (I should not be surprised really since they spent 2000+ words denying that Hebrew is God's language!)
The whole tenor of this horrible blog is centered on denying the "Messianic Movement" - those of us who recognize and accept the simple idea (found throughout the Bible) that we are, as humans on earth, expected to obey the Word of God. This horrible blog spends enormous time and energy denying our responsibility to obey God, while hiding behind a seriously misguided "truth".
I feel especially bad for those people who have found this awful site and have thus been misled by this "Internet Expert" and have fallen for his/her version of "truth". This is a huge problem with the Internet today. There are no "peer reviews"; and there is no "value/honesty/truth assessment" made - absolutely ANYONE with ANYTHING to say can post their thoughts and opinions for all to see and believe! The problem is, it is up to the reader to ferret out the good stuff from the bad. Sadly, in my experience, I've come to realize that few possess the needed intellect and skill to do that. It's sad but true!
Well, here is a COMPLETE debunking of that ENTIRE blog site in just 23 words: "The sum of the matter, when all is said and done; Revere God and observe His commandments! For this applies to all mankind." (Ecclesiastes 12:13) - And that IS in the Bible! Deny that!
Amen you are so right on. In these last days Ha satan is on the lose to spread his venom of lies. It reminds me of a song by Petra Angel of Light the chorus says
ReplyDeleteAngel of light, I see you glow in the night
But you only bring darkness to my soul
Angel of light, you're tellin' me wrong is right
But I won't let your evil take control.
This what we need to see and allow the Ruach Ha Khodesh to open our eys to see the True Light Yehusa
I find it interesting that in your post, you yourself have denied two very important commands. Exo 20:2 “I am יהוה your Elohim..." יהוה is the proper name Yahuah, the name we are to call upon. Exo 20:7 “You do not bring the Name of יהוה your Elohim to naught, for יהוה does not leave the one unpunished who brings His Name to naught." Yahuah will punish those that refuse to call upon Him. Baal-G-d is the proper name of an idol. This name translates "lord-G-d. Isa 65:11 “But you are those who forsake יהוה, who forget My set-apart mountain, who prepare a table for G-d,..." Isa 49:26 “.... All flesh shall know that I, יהוה, am your Saviour, and your Redeemer, the Elohim of Yaʽaqoḇ.” His son's name is Yahushua. Shabbath Shalom, Allen Benyahu.
ReplyDeleteThank you Allen, for your comment. Of course one must realize this blog necessarily needs to sometimes use terms recognizable to many in the world - consisting of people from all walks of life as a whole as we try to reach them with certain truths. Even Rav Shaul in Acts 15 did not require the Gentiles their immediate 100% immersion into Torah from the onset! No, instead he said "let's start them on their journey slowly."
ReplyDeleteSo even though you have found it offensive, forgive us for not giving our audience a "Torah concussion" by demanding they pronounce the sacred name as "Yahuah" or "Yahweh" or even the original Hebrew, יהוה, which you must admit, most simply would not understand or know how to pronounce. Long ago we realized we cannot start shoving down their throats “names” and terms they've never heard! Please see our articles in which we reveal the Names: http://therefinersfire.org/name_of_god2.htm and http://therefinersfire.org/yeshua_vs_yahshua.htm
And hopefully you understood the point of the original post - that so many go to such extremes to deny the very Word they are purporting to love! We at The Refiner's Fire love YHWH (Yahuah as you prefer) and His Torah and we are trying to get people to remove the scales from their eyes and see the beauty of the instructions for life given to us by YHWH, and not deny them.
Not everyone is at your level of understanding as to the Tanach and the Name.
Shalom!
Amen to that As it says in Micah 6:8 He has shown you o man what is good and what does Yahweh require of you, but to do justly and to love mercy and to walk HUMBLY with your Elohim. We are to love as He loves.
DeleteHere is a "dumb" question. Why should WE care what "unbelievers", "false teachers" spout? We are in the last days, we know deception is running rampart, we also know that only YHWH can draw people to Messiah, our job is not to convict, that is the spirits job, our job is to preach the Kingdom and make disciples of those that want to know the truth.
ReplyDeleteThank you for you comment. While I agree with you that our job is to preach the Kingdom, I'm not sure we must sit and wait for the Spirit to convict someone that they have been misled. Who knows if it is not the Spirit within us who is using us to demonstrate to someone what they have missed, and thereby get them to see something they did not know and thus lead them to YHWH? Many, we have found,who do want to know the truth, can't get said truth when they get sucked in to the teachings of a false ministry. We feel that if they are open to learning, then we might show them what is wrong. If they reject that, then we can wash the dust off our feet, and they are then on their own.
ReplyDeleteI have found that if you pray that the spirit lead you to a lost sheep that is seeking that don't know the whole message of the Gospel He will. Even just one out of the 99 that we can be salt & light to is what I pray. Yah can open the door for you to share His truth. The whole Bible!
DeleteI know a group of Messianic folks who do not wear tzitzit. One of them recently visited Israel and brought with her a 'handmade' tallit with tzitzit, but they were all white, without the blue cord. Clearly it was because of the rabbinical error concerning the special dye techelet. She did not think anything of it but adored her new piece of 'prayer equipment'.. She also proudly explained how the tzitzit knots were tied in the 'correct' way. But I can't see instructions in the Torah for tying the tzitzit. I know you have a blog post about the tzitzit knots forming the name YHWH etc. and when Yeshua returns, the tzitzit would be naturally resting on his thighs, and the 'writing' in the knots... Maybe that is true, but the special tying of the knots is not a commandment in the Torah but a rabbinical custom of men.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous,
DeleteI'm not quite sure exactly what is your point. You are spot-on that there are no instructions in the Torah for "how" to tie tzitzit. (Some in Judaism will claim it was "revealed" to them.) So the woman who went to Israel and then proudly proclaimed that her tzitzit were tied the "correct" way was likely only ignorant of the fact that there is no "right" or "wrong" way, as many simply are ignorant about the thread of blue issue. Perhaps your point is that "customs of men" are somehow "incorrect" or perhaps "wrong"? If so, let me address that.
With all Torah commands, (you probably already realize this), there are two parts. The first part is the command itself which is generally to do or not to do (something). The second part is "how". It's the latter that causes problems because it is not given. Regarding the tzitzit, the command is clear: "Make and wear tzitzit and in it put a thread of blue", (Numbers 15:38). The reason for the tzitzit is even given (Numbers 15:39-40). But the "how" part is not given. So the Hebrews came up with a way to comply, and the tzitzit was "born" about 3500 years ago and became a "custom" as a way to comply with the commandment. There is no reason to think that the way they are tied today is any different than the way they were tied then, except, of course, the different ways the knots are made.
The "how" part of command compliance is not "wrong" just because it has become tradition of men. If it does not somehow break the commandment, there is not a thing wrong with customs of men. For example, if a tzitzit is tied one way or another of the "traditional" ways, it in no way breaks the commandment. On the other hand when one says you can't have a blue thread because a certain blue dye must be used that can no longer be found, well, that "custom of men" is clearly wrong because it causes the wearer to break the commandment!
You did not say why this group of Messianic believers you know do not wear tzitzit, but that example, and your example of the "commands of men" simply add to the point of the blog article, of the extent to which people will go to deny simple obedience to God!
Oh, maybe my complicated and sidetracking post confused you a little bit.. My apologies!
ReplyDeleteWhat I meant was that I was saddened to see how the lady adored the piece of garment and it's origin in Israel, but was ignorant of the commandment that states that there needs to be a thread of blue in the tzitzit. And without obeying the actual commandment as it is written, the practice is just a custom of men, modified to suit us, instead of obeying YHWH.
There's nothing wrong with the beautiful thought behind the different methods of tying the tzitzit, that was not what I meant. Again, I was sad that to this lady the way of tying the particular tzitzit in the tallit she bought was more important than obeying the actual commandment.
Thanks for the clarification. We are in 100% agreement. I was scratching my head thinking that you were saying that somehow the "customs of men" was bad. But you are again, quite correct, and in-line with my reply. Sometimes the "customs of men" get in the way of simply obeying the commandment. This woman, bless her heart for going to Israel, was likely influenced while there by very smart, very scripturally-knowledgeable people, but without knowing it, was also influenced by the traditions and thought of the rabbis, who, BTW, Jews are taught that they MUST believe and do what the rabbis say! (Thus no Jew has a blue thread in their tzitzit!)
DeleteI have a few tallits from Israel, and of course, they had no blue thread, but I simply unwind them, remove a thread, and wind-in a blue thread. And I make my own tzitzit to wear on my pants - with the blue thread. My goal is to obey and let them "do their job" for me, which, as you know, is to keep me on a solid, holy path and not let my own desires and lusts deplete me.
Thanks so much for you comments and discussion!
Maybe I shall at one point suggest to this lady that she could also wind-in a blue thread to her tzitzit. :)
DeleteBut I have just newly started attending the meetings of these Messianic folks and as I don't really know them yet and they don't know me personally, I feel that it is not a time yet for me to instruct them.
They also speak in 'tongues'.. Many of them seem to come from a background of the Charismatic movement and so they still hang onto some beliefs and customs they adopted while there.
Do you think it is a really bad and dangerous thing, even if done out of pure ignorance, to still keep believing and practising the gibberish tongues, after 'returning to the roots' as they call it, and wanting to become Torah observant? And another thing is that they keep talking about different 'spiritual, demonic strongholds' that they say YHWH has shown to them. The 'tzitzit lady' said that as she visited Israel, YHWH showed her which demonic strongholds dominate there. I find this a bit odd, and although the scriptures do mention demons and 'strongholds', I think this also is part of the doctrine of the Charismatic movement, not quite so scriptural. But maybe I'm wrong.
Anyway I would think that those sort of things should gradually disappear by the renewal of the mind by the Word of YHWH, as we learn of Him and of His Word, we would naturally abandon these things.
What about if it doesn't happen? What about if it takes a long, long time? Is it still ok to keep attending such gatherings? We shouldn't mix the customs and practices of the pagans and the Way of YHWH. But where do we draw the line, especially in the case of former gentiles who have never known the Torah? What sort of things are acceptable for us to 'tolerate', especially as there are many different opinions and movements even within the Messianic/Netzari community? Some issues are trivial, some are more serious, in my opinion.
I am thinking that if I am looking for the 'absolute purity', I may not find it. But I also fear that I may gather with folks who could lead me astray too if possible, or I may be participating or at least meeting with people who practice questionable and unscriptural things, to a more or less serious degree.
In my own life, I know where I am coming from, I come from a deeply Torahless and pagan background too, and I too was once involved in the Charismatic movement. But my prayer every day is that YHWH would guide me away from all practices and beliefs that are against His will and that He would purify me and allow me to grow into all maturity and fullness in Mashiyach. And my prayer is that all the believers around the world would do the same.
Blessings to you, dear The Refiner's Fire, you have taught and keep teaching me a lot, and in your part you are hugely helping me on this journey into purity, maturity and sanctification in our precious Mashiyach. May YHWH bless you and your work. Amein.
Anonymous,
DeleteThis is very difficult to answer. As you said, if you have not been with these folks for long, it is not really your role to interfere or intervene. On the other hand, there is already a "check" in your spirit about this group that you probably need to listen to. Who is the leader, or rabbi? Ask for a private meeting with Him and find out what they believe and permit. What is his background? What does he think of the things you've already observed? He is supposed to be "in charge"! This meeting may provide your answer. The "demonic strongholds" is a bit odd, yet may have some basis of reality. We've seen congregations destroyed by a demonic stronghold that few, if any, recognized was in their midst.
As to 'tongues', you know tongues IS a gift in SOME people, and a legitimate form of ministration. But tongues can also be "faked", and sadly, often is. If you know well and are confident in your understanding of 1 Corinthians 14, when someone is speaking in tongues, stop them and ask if anyone has an interpretation. If there is no interpretation, then that person needs to speak in tongues quietly to themselves if they must for there is no profit to the assembly if they speak in tongues and no one can interpret. Further, if a whole bunch of people are speaking in tongues, you should also ask that be stopped, for it should be permitted of only a few and only one at a time, and only if there is someone who can interpret. (1 Corinthians 14:27). (You may want to advise the Rabbi of this before you cause a scene in service and you are made out to be the 'bad guy' in stead of the message being understood!)
No, you will not find as you say "absolute purity". But that does not mean you have to accept unholy rituals, and bad doctrine. Spend some time with these folks, but keep your eyes and ears open. Assess if the things you are seeing are simply innocent "holdovers" which people need time to give up and leave behind or if those same people are refusing to learn and are instead trying to force their pagan ways on the assembly. In the latter case, if the rabbi does not stop it, then leave if necessary and don't look back.
Thank you for your reply.
DeleteThe leader of this group is the same "tzitzit lady". And now knowing more, she has lead the group for over 10 years and still hasn't given up or learned more in order to give up those "holdovers" from the Charismatic movement.
And now after joining them a few more times this past week, I can see that they aren't willing to keep the Commandments, just the Feasts and Shabbat, the rest is just like in any Christian church. They speak of "The Lord" guiding them into everything they need to know and do, to them that doesn't involve actively studying the Scriptures nor actually keeping the commandments in the Torah, but they think that even without knowing the Word of YHWH He just miraculously leads and guides them in their lives into everything they need to know and do. They abuse grace just like any Christian church, using it as an excuse not to be Torah observant. To them, visions and "words from the Lord" are more weighty than the actual Word of YHWH.
The tongues, which are in the same "dialect" as the local Charismatic churches over here, occur at the end of a praise and worship session which is like "pumping up the spirit" (with a small s as it really is pumping up the human emotions as far as I have been observing), climaxing into what resembles pagan chanting, and that is when many of them speak in these "tongues" very loudly and the leader often shouts "FIRE!!! FIRE!!! FIRE!!!".
So I am not able to stop anybody while they speak in these tongues as it is during the music. Also during prayer, many of them speak in tongues at the same time as someone else prays in understandable language. This is what the Charismatic church holds onto as a "private prayer language" which I find unscriptural. It seems that as the Charismatic/Pentecostal movement got frustrated that the "tongues" they invented weren't actually of any language spoken on the earth as in the Bible, they had to come up with a doctrine to explain this away by twisting the scriptures; i.e. the doctrine of the private prayer language. And this is what I believe I am observing in this group.
A meeting usually involves a lot of this sort of praise and worship, and not once they have opened the Bible to read and study it and the leader does not teach anything. It is just to gather together to sing these songs and to chit chat together, often not even of Biblical things. Also silly and stupid worldly jokes sometimes.
So I think I have had enough, and it is my time to withdraw and carry on on this Way alone. I will not find absolute purity, I myself am not absolutely pure, but I strive for purity, I desire to study and learn and obey the Word of YHWH, and for that, I think these meetings will just waste my time. We're not on the same page, we're not desiring the same things, and just as well as attending the meetings, I can stay at home and study the scriptures to myself. These people are lovely and welcoming and I have felt comfortable with them as people, but I desire to know YHWH and His Word, time is short.
Yes, the more you reveal about this group, the more it becomes clear by your description that they have embraced their own "thing". Sounds like it's time to wash the dust off your feet.
DeleteAbsolutely! It's way past time to leave that group! Since they never crack the Bible and don't do any teachings, whom are they worshiping? I personally have never known anyone who "speaks in tongues" to get special revelations from God who would surely tell them something like, "My Name is YHWH, My Son's Name is Yeshua, and I need you to start keeping my Torah!" No...they always just revel in their "babbling" - not knowing what they are saying, but "feeling very holy".....
DeleteThere probably is no "perfect" congregation "out there"; but if you are in need of fellowship, just shop around and see if there is anyone who at least appears to "love God" and teaches from the Bible. Then, in the privacy of your own home, you can remain Torah observant and do what you know you're supposed to do to please YHWH. And if anyone ever asks you what you believe, don't be afraid to tell them....
Thank you. I have stopped going to that congregation. Even if not for any other reason, at least because my goal is my personal growth in Mashiyach, and in that congregation I was just wasting my time because no growth was taking place there. If the Scriptures aren't read or taught and if the main focus is on worship frighteningly identical to pagan chanting, I am better off at home alone... But blessed be our Father who is good and merciful and better than anything I can find in this world. :)
Delete