Tuesday, December 1, 2015

A conversation with a Christian man who insists Christmas is a good way to witness to the lost

The following is an example of the kinds of arguments posited by Christians to show that Christmas is perfectly acceptable in God’s eyes.  This partial “conversation” was recently taken from a Facebook “thread” where I challenged someone about his use of my comments about Hannukah and twisting them into justifying why Christmas is supposedly okay. (His idea was to show that since Hanukkah is “just a tradition," it means Christmas gets the same latitude and can be used to "witness to people" – and I attempted to show him that we cannot witness using a LIE.)

CHRISTIAN MAN: 

Jesus was the true gift given to men. This is what we celebrate by giving gifts to each other, the gift of God to men….What makes me sad is instead of agreeing with me that reaching the lost is what's most important, you chose to make a greater effort to try to prove you're right. Sadly I find this to be a common thread with most in the "Hebrew Roots" movement. It really should come as no surprise given your affinity for the Law. It's these kind of attacks from within the body of Christ that are killing it. When a body turns on itself and attacks itself that's a cancer.  Debating you on the many glaring hypocrisies of the "Hebrew Roots" movement is a fruitless endeavor, and only serves to further divisions among the body.

 MY RESPONSE:

You are clearly “the pot calling the kettle black.” First of all, you are guilty yourself of trying to prove you’re “right” – because that’s why you posted this thread, in the first place.  Secondly you’re NOT making this all about “reaching the lost” – you started this thread to PROVE that God condones Christmas ...by ursurping MY Hanukkah thread to prove YOUR point – not realizing you completely MISSED my point. The bible does NOT say that we are allowed to twist God’s Word to force it to condone paganism! But this is exactly what you have done.

Secondly, I realize talking to Christians is a “fruitless endeavor” – because you guys always regurgitate the same old stuff: Grace and Tolerance. While “tolerance” is the reason we now view “gay marriage” and all manner of decadence as normal, there’s nothing wrong with grace except that Christianity has twisted grace into meaning “no need to obey because God loves us enough to forgive us anything.” Well – that’s a huge mistake (please see my article on deliberate sinning)! Grace didn’t start with Jesus as Christianity claims; it has been around since the Garden of Eden!

You want to talk about “hypocrisies”? Okay, let’s get it on!

Instead of hating the “Hebrew Roots” movement (I am not a Hebrew rooter, BTW), how about removing the log from your eyes and start re-reading the Bible WITHOUT your “grace only” glasses, so you can recognize what’s IN the Bible, instead of just concentrating what you WANT to see? For instance, WHY do you want to lead people to “Christ” with LIES? Do you really think God approves of that? Do you REALLY believe He is smiling on what Christianity has done to HIS WORD? Let’s count just a FEW of the ways:
Christianity has changed the Name of our Divine Messiah (Yeshua isn’t that hard to say, and it means something – “YAHWEH is Salvation”; whereas “Jesus” doesn’t mean anything - it actually detracts from WHO He is)! Christianity has not only changed the Name of our Messiah, but also the dates of His birth, death and resurrection, and people like yourself apparently see nothing wrong with that because you are clearly desiring to use the LIE that is Christmas to “reach the lost”…..

Christianity with its nearly 40,000 different “denominations” (none of which Jesus brought!) not only calls Torah a CURSE (thanks to your misunderstandings of Paul’s writings, upon which Christianity is based), but you have ignored His COMMANDED Seventh Day Sabbath and the Feasts (all of which foreshadow Yeshua), and come up with your own “holy days” of Christmas and Easter – both of which are steeped in paganism.

Christmas is nothing but a commercial holiday designed to part people with their money. “Santa Claus” – who has absolutely NOTHING to do with the birth of our Messiah, who was NOT born in December, but on the first day of the Feast of Sukkot!) is a huge LIE we tell our children; and, last time I checked, lying was a SIN! (See Leviticus 19:11, Proverbs 12:22 and 17:7, Zepheniah 3:13, John 8:44, Acts 5:3, Ephesians 4:29, Colossians 3:9, Revelation 22:15 and the 9th Commandment.)  So, since you have decided LYING is okay, why not break the REST of the Ten Commandments, and come up with "holidays" that promote stealing, coveting, dishonoring our parents, or the committing of adultery or murder?
Now, I can’t speak for “Hebrew Roots” (God only knows they have their own myriad problems because, like in Christianity, MEN have twisted the Word as well and splintered into different groups and cults). But as for me and my house, we read the Bible for what it says; we don’t try to “cherry pick” our way through it. Numbers 15:13-16 shows YHWH saying FOUR TIMES IN A ROW that ALL who accept Him are to do exactly as HIS people do – and HIS people have always been Torah observant. Yeshua didn’t come to abolish that, or anything else EXCEPT for the need for man to offer SIN sacrifices! Both Yeshua and Paul reiterated this several times.

Luke 4: 43 "But he (Yeshua/Jesus) said, "I must preach the good news of the Kingdom of God to the other towns also, because that is why I was sent." (CJB)

Luke 8: 1. And it happened after these things that Y'shua was going around in the cities and in the villages and was preaching and declaring the Kingdom of Elohim. (AENT)

Acts 28: 23 "From morning till evening the Apostle Paul explained and declared the Kingdom of God and tried to convince people about Yeshua from the Law of Moses and from the Prophets." (CJB)

Acts 24: 14. But this indeed I (Paul) acknowledge, that in that same doctrine of which they speak, I do serve the Elohim of my fathers, believing all the things written in Torah and in the prophets. (AENT)

So, while His death, burial, and resurrection are an important part of the Good News, it's not the whole story! God isn't just in the business of "saving" people. As Creator and law giver, He is in the business of teaching us how to be good subjects in His Kingdom to come!  Without Torah, we would have NO blueprint for moral, holy living!  If "Jesus abolished Torah at the cross" then why was EVERY believer completely Torah observant for one hundred years after Yeshua's death, including the Apostle Paul who was "caught" being Torah observant 29 years after Yeshua's death (Acts 21:23-24)! Was Paul a hypocrite, saying one thing and doing another; or were his teachings, perhaps, misunderstood?

I leave you with the proof that God expects ALL to obey His Torah:

Numbers 15: 13 "'Every citizen is to do these things in this way when presenting an offering made by fire as a fragrant aroma for ADONAI. 14 If a foreigner stays with you - or whoever may be with you, through all your generations - and he wants to bring an offering made by fire as a fragrant aroma for ADONAI, he is to do the same as you. 15 For this community there will be the same law for you as for the foreigner living with you; this is a permanent regulation through all your generations; the foreigner is to be treated the same way before ADONAI as yourselves. 16 The same Torah and standard of judgment will apply to both you and the foreigner living with you.'" (CJB)

Romans 10: 12. And in this, it discriminates neither Jews nor Gentiles. For there is one, Master YHWH, over them all, who is abundantly generous towards every one that calls on him. 13. For everyone that will call on the name of Master YHWH, will have life. (AENT)

Please re-read the above in case you missed it: Same God, same rules! Any Torah-less non-Jew/Hebrew/Israelite who does not yet believe in the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is an "alien"/foreigner. However, if they do wish to accept Him, then they are to do exactly as those who are already belong to Him! It’s got nothing to do with “being Jewish”; this was an “everybody” thing that included the pagan Gentiles who followed Moses out of Egypt and stood before YHWH on Mt. Sinai….

Furthermore, we need to remember that YHWH did NOT make His New Covenant with pagans, Christians, Muslims, Buddhists or anyone else; He made it with the Torah observant Houses of Israel and Judah (Jeremiah 31:31-33)! Again – same God, same rules! He never, ever said Christians could make up their own holy days and ignore His commanded Seventh Day Sabbath or eat whatever their hearts desired….

As to “Christmas” and its “traditions” (which includes the WRONG date of birth, the mythical “Santa” and the giving of gifts to each other…something that the Three Wise men did NOT start  - Matthew 2:11) – YHWH clearly warned us NOT to cut down trees and take them into the house to decorate them:

Jeremiah 10: 1 Hear the word Adonai speaks to you, house of Isra'el! 2 Here is what Adonai says: "Don't learn the way of the Goyim (Gentiles), don't be frightened by astrological signs, even if the Goyim are afraid of them; 3 for the customs of the peoples are nothing. They cut down a tree in the forest; a craftsman works it with his axe; 4 they deck it with silver and gold. They fix it with hammer and nails, so that it won't move. 5 Like a scarecrow in a cucumber patch, it cannot speak. It has to be carried, because it cannot walk. Do not be afraid of it - it can do nothing bad; likewise, it is unable to do anything good!" (CJB)
 

What makes you think the above doesn’t pertain to Christians? Because they are “under grace?” Since when did “grace” replace the need to OBEY God – and why would “Jesus” change His Father’s Divine Rules about what constitutes paganism, “unclean” foods, holy days/feasts and His Seventh Day Sabbath which is a SIGN between Him and His people

9 comments:

  1. I loved the feature that was on Netzari Times site years ago about "Y'shua vs. Jesus" and how December 25 was a pagan holiday. "The Two Babylons" by Alexander Hislop also opened my eyes to the pagan origin of Christmas and other holidays.

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  2. Wow these words are really sharp like a sword. I just hope that the "christian christmas guy" will have a heart that wiling to repent and "love the truth".

    More blessings Sister Shali!
    Shalom!

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    1. Yes, they are "sharp" words, but there comes a point where it gets tiring to hear the same old drivel about how wonderful Christmas is and how God condones it. After nearly 20 years of dealing with the same old, tired "Christmas is okay" stuff, we are to the point where we can no longer "just back off and let them believe whatever they want to believe."

      This particular person usurped one of my Facebooks threads about Hanukkah and how this "tradition" is actually GOOD...and promptly twisted it into forcing the idea that Christmas is ALSO a good tradition.....

      No place in Scripture do we see either YHWH or Y'shua "caving in" to man's desires to commit spiritual adultery or put a stamp of approval in sin - and it's time people started standing up for Truth. This guy, like most, refused to acknowledge that lying is a sin and should never be used to "lead people to the Lord." If anyone could produce scripture to prove me wrong on this, I'll gladly repent and apologize!

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  3. I sent this article to non believer and asked them to open their eyes and their heart when reading and studying.

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    1. Thank you, Gary! Many blessings to you and yours!

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  4. Using Christmas as a starting point for sharing the Gospel does not require us to do any of the associated traditions. Paul did not sacrifice to the Unknown God. It was a starting point for his message. Nothing more. To have wreaths trees and presents is going too far and proves the argument is only an excuse to disobey God

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  5. Bravo, I agree wholeheartedly Shali. I often point out that YHWH is very specific in The Bible with what He wants us to observe and what He doesn't want us to observe. I would think that if He wanted us to observe His son's date of birth, He would tell us the date in order to do so. Also, reading the Bible we never read about any of the Apostles celebrating His day of birth. No matter how often I point all of these things out to friends and family they just shrug their shoulders and say either "God doesn't care when we celebrate or how we celebrate Jesus' birthday, just as long as we do" and "we are going to celebrate any way we want to celebrate, the angels said to rejoice, so we are rejoicing by celebrating this way". I usually say "if you want to celebrate His birth so badly why drag trees, santa, reindeer and gift giving into it; and do it in the actual month of birth, not Dec."
    By the way Shali, I always thought you were in the Hebrew Roots movement. Why are you against it?

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    1. Thanks for your comments - you're RIGHT ON! I'm not necessarily "against the Hebrew Roots movement"; I'm against what man has made it into. I'm against labeling ourselves. The Hebrew Roots has so many factions and theologies and teachers who fight each other and argue over every little thing. To most in the HR, it seems that it's all about "being right" instead of seeking YHWH's guidance....

      Most of HR is also into "two house" (which is almost like a brand new religion because everything to them always leads back to this division between "Ephraim and Judah." It's ridiculous. We are ONE in Messiah. End of story. Two house was spawned around 50 years ago by someone who felt "less than" because they weren't Jewish, and they searched Scripture until they "found" something they could hang onto that made them feel "equal"....Such nonsense!

      If I have to put a label on myself, I would say I consider myself to be Netzarim (as indicated on our website)...which is "Nazarene" - which is what the original followers of Y'shua were called.

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